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I couldn't have done that in a 182...

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  • I couldn't have done that in a 182...

    In response to a poster's query about the 260se's capabilities and things owners have comfortably done that just would"fly" in a regular plane:


    Here are two: the first to which you refer was at
    Santa Maria (SMX). While on right downwind for 30,
    tower cleared a DC9 for "immediate takeoff." He taxied
    into position promptly enough but then parked there
    until I was at about 300' AGL and 2/3 mile final, all
    configured and trimmed for 55 KIAS. Tower instructed me to
    do a right 360 and queried the DC9 regarding his
    thoughtful approach to executing an immediate takeoff. In a
    regular 182 I would have replied "unable" and gone around
    but instead I followed instructions. In the turn
    airspeed was 48-52 KIAS with an occasional chirp of the
    stall horn (mine goes off 5-10 kt above stall) but all
    went well and we landed fine, tower thanking me for
    the help. Not sure I would do it again but it didn't
    feel like I was on or near "the edge."

    The second was at Hollister (3O7). I was following a Mooney
    in left traffic for 31; no other traffic in the
    pattern and a slight left-quartering headwind. For
    unknown reasons the Mooney driver decided to log his
    rollout on 31 as cross-country time and used the entire
    6350' runway. So I announced, "left base midfield for
    24, landing long," motored down the right side of 31
    at 55 kt and ~50 feet, and landed on 24. No problem,
    just like Todd showed me on the intersecting runways
    at EQA! Gotta love this plane!
    Kevin Moore
    Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now

  • #2
    260se demo flight

    If any of you reading this haven't flown with
    Todd, or do not own a 260SE but are thinking about it,
    this post is for you. If you have, then skip
    it. But if you haven't... YOU MUST FLY WITH
    TODD. I knew the 260SE was going to be safe, versatile
    etc... but no flying experience can really prepare you
    for learning what this plane can do down SLOW. Todd
    kept saying "think of it as a fixed wing helicopter"
    and he was right. I'll mention two examples on our
    test flight. As we cruised downwind for runway
    33 at 1000AGL, Todd said "let's land now on 33." We
    were abeam the midpoint of the runway, not even a 1/4
    mile to the side. He simply reduced the manifold pressure,
    pitched for about 50 kts, and proceeded to calmly turn
    final directly over the last 1500 ft of the runway. Our
    forward speed was so slow it reminded me on landing a
    parachute -- as if we could simply step to a stop.
    BUT EVEN MORE AMAZING was the next pass. Todd set up
    for a nice 20 deg flap, 55kt approach on the runway that
    crossed 33. As we flared over the threshold at 45kts,
    Todd said, "let's pretend there's something we don't
    like on the pavement." With a little power we simply
    floated down the runway at 45kts, 4 feet AGL. As we
    approached where runway 33 crossed, Todd said "well that
    runway looks nice..." He then calmly executed a sharp
    nearly 90 degree turn at 48kts and lined up on 33 at 4
    feet AGL. BUT HE DIDN'T LAND YET. HE said "let's go on
    down aways..." There was about 1500 feet left.
    Somewhere about on the 1000 ft hash marks, Todd decided he
    had enough and so with about 500 feet left he put it
    down. Then he said "oh, let's go around again, we've
    got plenty of room..." He put the power back on just
    about at the numbers (going the wrong way of course)
    and we lept back into the air. All of this
    with three big guys in her. In short, this is
    why you buy a 260SE. This is what you are paying for.
    The ability to turn into a fixed wing helicopter
    whenever you near the ground. Fly with Todd,
    'cause it'll be a while before I have the courage to
    show anyone those things!

    Kevin Moore
    Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now


    • #3
      I concur with Dean's recommendation and have
      enjoyed similar demonstrations from Todd a time or two.
      Remarkably, much of this capability is accessible to a
      relative novice like myself in rather short order. While I
      wouldn't yet have the confidence to try a steep turn at "4
      feet AGL," the rest of the "show" I have done in
      practice and once in real life because the plane in front
      of me decided to use all of the 6000+ foot runway
      for rollout. This airplane can do some astonishing
      things in a very forgiving manner.

      FYI on a related note my wife and I saw the new 310 hp Cirrus SR22
      on display at the AOPA Convention. I noticed two
      small strakes on the forward fuselage, just ahead of
      the wing roots. Back at the Cirrus booth in the
      convention center I asked one of the Cirrus representatives
      about the strakes. The reply was that at near-stall
      angle of attack, the strakes provide just enough lift
      to get the stall speed under 60 kt which is the
      certification limit for single-engine planes of this type. I
      smiled at my wife and remarked to her, "Hmmm, do you
      suppose they might be on to something here?"
      Kevin Moore
      Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now


      • #4
        If you are a seasoned 260SE pilot this post may
        be boring and you may wish to skip it. I
        wanted to post a few observations about my first week
        with my 260SE. First of all, performance: I'm seeing
        around 133-137 KIAS at 6,500, ground speeds from 133-153
        with various winds -- but it is too early to tell how
        accurate all that is because it is a new engine, and my
        airframe still has some antennae that need to go away.
        Right now I'm running a little rich, buring about 15GPH
        (17 on the guage) -- but will easily see close to 13
        when I have a little more time on the engine.
        Basically, as a x-country cruiser the 260SE performs as Todd
        has promised, and feels very much like a new
        182S. It is when you are near the ground and slower that
        this plane transforms. I've already talked about its
        near-helicopter-like abilites at 50kts, so I what I want to write
        about now is what it feels like on approach and a more
        normal landing. It feels like nothing else I've
        tried. Basically, what you find is as you enter the
        airport environment, you are a pilot with unlimited
        options. Feel like flying 100kts plus and slowing down
        over the numbers... no problem. Feel like flying a
        traditonal 80's,70's,60's... no problem. Want to turn base
        at the numbers and still land on the 1000ft mark --
        no problem. It literally feels like you can do
        anything you want, with no penalty in terms of mushy
        controls, or that feeling of being close to a control limit
        that one often feels if not flying a very standard
        pattern in a more conventional plane. I find it very easy
        to fly well, very intuitive, very
        light...etc. The airport environment makes you feel like a kid in
        a candy store, like you have five different planes
        to choose from. I am not an IFR rated pilot yet, but
        I cannot imagine a plane I would rather shoot an
        approach to minimums in. It's not just the margin of
        safety that comes from the handling/performance/power...
        it's really that versatility. I guess what I am
        trying to report is that approach/landing, which is one
        of the most demanding and dangerous phases on any
        flight, is my favorite phase in 21396. The plane gives
        you confidence, but not a false so of it. And it
        gives you an amazing degree of control, much more than
        in the following planes I've tried
        (172,182,Archer,Cirrus,etc.). It's not so much how is this landing going to
        be... better be sure to get it right... With a 260SE,
        it is "Hmmm. How do I feel like landing today?"
        Kevin Moore
        Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now


        • #5
          Here in so. cal, control towers abound, and in the 1st month I had 21396, I collected some good comments, as the ATC in the LA basin got to know me from countless practice approaches:

          1) ATC: "Mooney xya, hold short, traffic short final is a skylane." The
          mooney said he had me and I was high. ATC responded
          "Yeah, but he's in an elevator."

          3) ATC: Skylane 21396 cleared to land. (I was doing a no-flap approach
          at 65kts)

          ATC: (pause) Where's the fire?

          4) ATC: Skylane 21396 cleared to land. (as I'm on short final a few moments later) Do you need a push?

          5) ATC: Skylane 21396 cleared to land, no need to
          respond to this transmission but traffic in trail is a
          gulfstream, if able plan for an immediate angle off the

          So I do and roll about 500ft into the high-perfomance run-up just past the threshold

          ATC: 21396 thank you, you may start your run-up at anytime.

          6) ATC: Skylane 21396 cleared for take-off, on
          departure offset 20 degrees to the left immediately for
          faster departing traffic a citation. (beat) Actually
          cancel the immediate, I'd like you to be more than 500
          ft down the runway before you start your turn.

          7) While coming into a runway 5000ft long at 48 kt

          Me: 396, we'd like a touch and go.

          Atc: Sure, how many are you going to do this time by?

          And my favorite...

          8) After my initial call for
          landing at a an airport with ONLY ONE runway 5000x150,
          oriented on 03/21 and a 90 degree crosswind at 300

          ATC: 21396, you're the canard, right?

          me: affirmative

          ATC: In that case if you want, try runway 30.
          Kevin Moore
          Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now


          • #6
            Salvaging landings

            Arriving at MRY yesterday into a gusty headwind,
            I was able to make one landing with three separate
            touchdowns. Nothing to brag about on my part, but yet
            another illustration of how this plane is so forgiving of
            difficult conditions and/or less-than-sterling pilot
            technique. On the first and second attempts (stall warning
            on, but not as slow as The Master taught me I'll
            admit) wind gusts lifted us back into the air 2-3 feet.
            With the 260se's fine slow speed qualities I was able
            to salvage a quite decent 3rd and thankfully final
            touchdown. In any other plane it would have been go-around
            time for sure. Todd should I log this as three
            landings or one? Takeoff on the other hand was an
            adrenaline rush. The plane was about 650 lb under MGTOW and
            there was a 12-15 kt headwind. By the time I had
            scanned the tach and engine instruments the ASI was at 40
            and with a prompt "oops, let's get with the program
            here" rotation I was off in well under 300 feet and
            climbing like an elevator; by the end of the runway I was
            at 1500--such fun!

            Gotta love this plane!
            Kevin Moore
            Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now